Kachina: Welcome to another episode of our fun*cast series. FUN* is the shortcut for FrauenUmweltNetzwerk in English translation female environmental network and we are a university group working with the aim to foster gender equality in MINT+ disciplines at TU Dresden. The network exists since 2017 and was implemented by the faculty of environmental science. Ever since we have been offering roundtables, networking events like excursions and free trainings with the overall aim to support women during their professional and academic career. Our main target audience are students, but also employees at the Technical University of Dresden. So in this episode, we want to talk about mental health issues. And I'm absolutely overwhelmed to announce today's guest Anja Wiede, who is currently working at the complaints office at the Technical University in Dresden. We are going to talk about the UniSAFE project and gender based violence, the workshop “bringing in the bystander”, diversity sensitive language, and the TU Dresden directory and the function and assistance processes of the TU Dresden complaints office. And most important, why her work is so important in an academical context. So this should be enough from my side, I would like to welcome Anja Wiede and for the people who never have heard from the complaints office, we would like to ask you to give us some quick insights and some ideas about your daily work and what your personal career path was until now.

Anja Wiede: Okay, well, thank you for having me. And I think that's a pretty good start. Well, I'm the contact person for harassment, discrimination and violence and also responsible for the complaints office. And I belong to the prorectorate of university culture. The complaints office is open to all employees and students in cases of discrimination, harassment violence and in accordance with the guideline for dealing with those incidents. That means if I receive a complaint, I will investigate it. And quite often, people come to me who have experienced or seen various violations of personal boundaries, and then we think about what could be a good way to deal with it, actually. And in addition to this work, I also organize various awareness raising events, for example, in the context of the week against racism, or the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against women. I also give workshops on various topics, such as sexualized violence. For me, it's also very important to network beyond Dresden, because I think harassment discrimination and violence unfortunately happen everywhere. And it makes sense to support each other and develop common strategies. And maybe that's also because biographically I was some kind of small leaf in the wind. I studied sociology here in Dresden and ended with a diploma. And my secondary subject was psychology, and where sometimes I felt quite excluded because of this whole academic habitus. I was the first person in my family to graduate from high school. So I was pretty happy to flee from this one and from the other side, that means I went to Spain as an Erasmus student. But I also took part in different kinds of work camps, for example, and Lebanon and Cambodia. And well, at that time, you could also study Latin American studies as an accompanying subject. And I did that and then went to Bolivia after my graduation for working in a woman White’s organization. And there we did some kind of research on maciste violence in youth relationships and I also dealt a lot with my own white positioning and the racism against indigenous people there. So, phenomena of classism, racism, sexism, ableism, which structure our society or life and like capitalism and somehow hold it together. I always had a critical need to reflect on this and wanted to put it into practice. So back then in Germany, I started studying social work and have since completed it, and at the same time, I had a job with a gender equality commissioner here at TU Dresden. And in between, I did further training as a mediator and since last week, I'm a certified trainer for feminist self-excitation and self-defence, which is aimed at people who experienced the majority of sexualized violence, for example, women, trans and non-binary people.

Kachina: Wow. Okay, so everyone who could have a look at my face right now would have seen that my mouth was open after this really nice CV. Really interesting. Thanks for all these insights. So, yeah, my feeling that you are a really good person to talk about these issues, has now grown even more after I've learned so much about you. Thanks for all these. I would directly switch over to the project UniSAFE, which is about gender-based violence. And I don't know if every one of you know something about this project, but amongst 45 European universities and research institutes, the Technical University in Dresden is participating at this UniSAFE project. This project is about gender-based violence and as well as Institutional Responses, with the aim to build a knowledge base, which is then translated into operational tools to make universities and research organizations safer. The overall subject is to catch on the mechanisms of gender-based violence, including its effects within research institutes, and the academic environment, using institutional case studies and qualitative interviews as far as I understood it correctly. Furthermore, the results shall be integrated into political guidelines and simultaneously enable a higher security of action and handling gender-based violence for students and employees in academic context. However, I was wondering why it is actually necessary to research on this large scale about gender-based violence in an academical or even professional context. Could you please explain this a little bit to me and also give some more background information about the links between gender-based violence, and its further negative effects in a professional and individual private level, from your personal perspective?

Anja Wiede: Well, first of all, maybe for those who don't know what gender-based violence is, gender-based violence refers to forms of violence that are directed against the person or persons because of their gender, or that disproportionately affect persons of a particular gender. The majority of violence, regardless of which gender is directed against, is perpetrated by men. Women and people who do not fit into the heteronormative image, such as non-binary person, trans persons, agender persons, but also homosexuals, bisexuals are particularly often affected and more often affected and differently marginalized persons such as disabled persons or racialized persons or women, non-binary persons and trans persons are also affected even more frequently. This is called intersectionality. Intersectionality means that social categories such as gender, ethnicity, nation or class cannot be conceptualized in isolation from each other but must be analysed and they're like interweaving’s or intersections. And in the UniSAFE context, the issue is then more concrete on sexualized discrimination and violence refers to any psychological, physical or verbal behaviour with a sexual reference that is perceived by the person affected as border crossing that means behaviour that is unwanted and degrading or hurtful, or is aimed at achieving this effect. What is the boundary crossing for one person does not have to be so far for another. Also, the same action and different settings or by a different person can feel completely different. For example, if I'm in the crowded Mensa, at 12 o'clock, and someone bumps my button, once they walk by because they're pushing their way through, it might not feel good, but it might have been intentional. But if it's just me and one another person or one other person in the canteen, then the setting changes and my perceiving changes. And perpetrators not only act of sexual intention and are not concerned with consensual sexual contact instead perpetrators use sexually connoted and sexually charged expressions and actions to exercise power and superiority. On campus this can be like a various of behaviours, for example, obscene or humiliating remarks like different jokes, facial expressions or gestures, indiscreet questioning about bodies, about lifestyles, or love lives. It could be some kind of in appropriate compliments or gifts, invitations to private homes to discuss exam results, intrusive looks, proposals and unwanted requests to get to know each other better, unwanted proximity or touching, stalking in person or digitally, unwanted solicitation and forcing of sexual favours of acts, well or physical assaults or attempted rape. And of course, this also happens off campus. Every third day in 2021, a woman in Germany died because of the hands of her partner. That in turn is called femicide, for example. And regardless of whether it happens in private or on campus, if it happens by a friend or a fellow student, a work colleague, or a professor, it naturally has an impact on your study, or your work life. When I have to deal with incidents like this kind, I have hardly any resources or capacity left to concentrate on other things. Neither in my private life in my professional life. Beyond the potential initial physical injury, including ongoing poor physical and mental health and various stress related disorders. For example, gender-based violence can lead to drug and alcohol abuse, to eating and sleep disorders to poor self-esteem, post-traumatic stress disorder, smoking, unsafe sexual behaviour, self-harm, and even suicide. And this person being affected at university may have to go through different challenges also, because they maybe attend the same seminar as the perpetrator or share the same office.

If one then stays away from the university, it can lead to this social isolation, no more study or parties of students like or material from the subject is not understood. Exams are not written or written with a bad note at the end, the teethes is not completed, the standard period of study is not adhere to, the Bafög is cancelled, and no one can no longer afford to study or the degree is delayed and this is some kind of existential crisis and become super visible. So if you then consider how much value is placed on so called “normal biographies”, then it must actually become clear that the access to university life is not the same between the gender due to the various experiences of violence, and that career path can simply be severely restricted. And apart from the impact on the person being involved in such incidents, also has damaging consequences for the university and the whole campus community, inadequate prevention and response to such violence perpetuates the problem and puts other students at risk. Furthermore, inadequate response sends the message that such violence is tolerated within the institution and that the institution is not fulfilling its obligations and academic propose. Inaction also promotes a genuine champion of gender based violence. And the UniSAFE’s research project is clearly about not only establishing missing statistics that finally cover non-binary people, for example, but also and more importantly, developing strategies of prevention within a European Framework. And this is an absolutely empty space. And therefore, it's great that the TU Dresden is involved in this project.

Kachina: Wow, that was really a vast amount of information and insights. I'm really happy to have been in this position to have learned all these interlinkages because I don't know how you feel on the other end of your audiobox right now but for me, there was some interlinkages or connections I would have not gathered by myself so far. So thank you very much for all of these. And having said that, I would be highly interested to what I as a potentially affected individual can do against gender-based violence in an academic context?

Anja Wiede: Well, it's actually pretty essential to develop an awareness of one's own limits and an understanding of consent. Each person should be able to ask and answer the question, do I really want to do this now? Can I say no? Or can I communicate where to the other person that my boundary has been crossed here? Or do I then fear negative consequences? That is, for example, that my partner will break up with me or that I will get a lower grade, for example. So the advices: listen to your needs, listen to your boundaries, they have the right to exist and as hard as it is sometimes, you are totally allowed to say no or to say stop it. Like females socialize people in particular are not talk much about saying no or often, others don't take it seriously. So therefore, also pay attention to the boundaries of others. If someone tells you that somebody's overstepping their boundaries, stand by them and speak up for them. It's also important that those persons being affected do not blame themselves for various incidents. You were not wearing a skirt that was too short and you did not say anything wrong. The person who crosses your line is the only one who is responsible for the incident. And if something does happen, I would emphasize that there's never one like plan that applies to all people. Some people prefer to keep all those kind of information to themselves, other ones to deal with it more publicly. I would advise each person to talk about it, in any case. Even if it's only a vague feeling at first talk about it either with a close person like a friend, it's more about her catching you or you can talk to someone very far away such as a help line against violence or a counselling centre. And in addition to the university gender equality commissioners, like from the faculty, but also from the university, there are also organizations here in Dresden such as “Sowieso e.V.” or “Gerede e.V”: always that will listen to you confidentially, and if possible, anonymously. They also know what to do, like, they can also show you other kinds of ways. You can also seek psychological support or take part in empowerment workshops. In October, there will also be an assertiveness course at the university, for example. And the other ways can be related to the perpetrator. That means you can take legal action, you can report it to the police or to your supervisor to address the person and the teaching staff, to the housekeeping of your student resistance or initiate a complaint procedure here at the university. While at the end, it's important to note that only the affected person themselves know which ways are theirs. No other person has to decide what would be better.

Kachina: Okay. I have one additional question. If it's possible, what is an assertiveness course? I didn't, I've never heard that. What can you explain?

Anja Wiede: Well, it's, it's when you want to self-defence yourself, you firstly need to know get to know your boundaries, you need to know your appearance and this is some kind of assertiveness.

Kachina: Okay, thanks for that. So, the Technical University acknowledged and subsequently reacted to the movements of #metoo, and #metooinscience encouraging those affected to speak up about sexualized violence in academic contexts, with a guideline of how to deal with harassment, discrimination and violence. Further, the results of the TU Dresden diversity monitoring showed that harassment discrimination and violence also happened at our university, so the Technical University in Dresden. How did the university react to this in particular?

Anja Wiede: Well, sexual harassment, discrimination and violence actually is a structural pillar of our society. So the fact that this also happens at our university, as it does at other universities and in other areas of society is not special in use. But the commitment is different. By setting up the complaints office the TU Dresden is emphasizing its responsibility to care and that's something really great, I think. By reporting cases here, discrimination and protecting or protection gaps become visible. For example, protection against digital violence is a very, very big gap actually, which we are now responding to by evaluating the guideline. And there's also a compliance management system which is currently being introduced, including a digital whistle-blower platform where those being affected can anonymously report if something has happened to them. And while we are also doing some kind of visible awareness raising measures also shape the university culture last year on the “International Day for Elimination of Violence Against Women”. The directorate was illuminated in orange in accordance with the orange or the with the campaign orange the world. On 17th of May the progressive pride flag was raised on the “International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia, Biphobia and Transphobia” and this year, for example, we are going to show the film “Picture a scientists” on 25th of November, which deals with sexualized violence against female scientists at universities. So we are also acquired the license for the “bringing in the bystander”-workshops which are aimed at students and sensitize them to sexualized violence actually.

Kachina: All right. I don't know why, but these are really heavy topics to talk about from my own personal perspective. So I feel a little bit more seen right now after having heard that there are so many attempts to kind of handle these difficult topics and to make the life as female understood person a little bit easier. Just to make it even more visible in this university context. So thanks for all these insights again. Could you kindly explain because you're also offering these workshops “bringing in the bystander” what is it about and why it is so special?

Anja Wiede: Well, most workshops or trainings on sexualized violence focus on either perpetrators or survivors of incidents like this. And this workshop is explicitly about the fact that we are all witnesses to these incidents, even if we are maybe, maybe not affected. That means we see it in our own family, maybe on the train or in the seminar room. And then we often say “Oh, that's a private matter” or “It's none of our businesses”, or we don't dare to do anything, because we don't know how. So the workshops are about raising awareness and, well, that sexualized violence never happens in isolation, but always in a social context and we try to communicate that one can intervene in cases of sexualized violence at different times. Like, one can take preventive actions, you can intervene during an incident or you can interact after an incident, for example, by accompanying your friend to a counselling centre or something like that. And it's also about conveying that every person has different abilities. So some may be particularly courageous and go directly into the situations, others may be more passive, and they try to get help somewhere else. And that's completely okay. It's just important that we work together to prevent sexualized and intimate partner violence of this kind, and that we raise awareness and that we take a stand against it and intervene in solidarity when incidents occur.

Kachina: Okay, cool. That's sounds like a really holistic approach with incidences or topics. The very first step in this context is to identify personal boundary violations, which can be applied to both the private and the academic or professional sphere. How can I recognize the violations as a person affected? And as a bystander? I don't know, we have talked about these assertiveness courses just some minutes before, but maybe you can, yeah, let me some more.

Anja Wiede: Well, of course, it's very difficult to give a general answer. It often starts with like a strange feeling as a result of a certain action both as a person being affected or as a bystander, you may fear some kind of disappointment, frustration, anger, shame or helplessness. And as an effective person, I will notice that much more quickly than in non-effective person. What is needed here is empathy and solidarity, which has a lot to do with like recognizing different ways of life, I guess. In my opinion, in order to, for example, identify discrimination on the basis of gender, I often asked myself the question “Would this also happen to a man?”, for example, when I'm standing in a bar, and the men grips my hips to walk past me, I asked myself “Would that generally happen to a man?”. Well, I think no, so that's a sexist act for me and because it didn't happen in consent, it's a boundary crossing from my side, actually. But to recognize sexual boundary crossings, I recommend a book by Sara Hassan and Juliet Sanchez-Lambert. In German it’s called “Grauzonen gibt es nicht”, in English it’s “There are no grey areas”. It's available for free on the internet and it builds on the knowledge of those being affected and describes what goes on when people abused their power. And well they are using real concrete examples, it shows how harm the situation turn into sexual harassment and it shows the classic techniques that perpetrators use, takes a look at the toxic environments that enable the behaviour and help survivors and bystanders to recognize when the situation is about to go off the rails. Finally, it also presents strategies that can happen in such situations.

Kachina: Perfect, thank you so much. We will make some more promotion for bringing in the bystander. That is for sure. And now I have another book to read soon. Okay. Coming back to the topic. So what are your recommendations for effective people in your function at this consultation office? And could you kindly advise us the connection to the term allay ship in this context?

Anja Wiede: Well, people who contact counsellors to talk about their experiences of harassment, discrimination and violence take a lot of courage, we have to say. Often, however, they are denied what they have experienced, explanations are found for the abusive behaviour and the person itself may be blamed for the incidents. And as a counsellor, I think it's therefore utmost importance to trust the person to communicate to them that their experience is not denied but believed and that together there can be found ways to resolve like the incident in a victim centred way. And to get there the concept of ally ship is totally important because on the one hand it focuses on one's own positioning and on the other hand, it recognizes the reality of others. The ally ship concept comes from like racism research and has meanwhile expanded to all forms of discrimination. Allyship here always refers to relations of power and inequality with the aim of overcoming these relations. An ally is then a person who has certain structure privileges, like white men, for example, and allies with people who do not have these privileges, but experience discrimination. If you want to act as an ally, then you have to think about the following applies like check your privileges, recognize the forms of discrimination, listen to those being affected, give them space, do not tell them and how they should talk about their experiences, educate yourself, support and promote those being affected. That means, for example, if I'm invited to a conference on racist discrimination, and only white people speak, then it's up to me to point out that the most important perspective actually is missing, and that organizers have to take care of it, even if that means that I won't speak at this conference. And another example is gender inclusive communication. This could be an example of allyship, like non-binary people, or trans people are often misgendered, they are assigned as a false gender from the outside and actually, this is a form of violence. And to prevent this from happening, many people write their pronoun and their email signature, then people know which pronoun people want to be addressed with. And I, myself belong to the group of people who identify with their biological sex, which fits into the heteronormative picture. And I am also perceived as such by others, and do not experience any form of misgendering means that I am like a privileged person. But however, so that those affected do not feel exposed, like a alone, I also write my pronouns in my signature, for example.

Kachina: Perfect, really, really good point what you said, with the language on the one hand, and also about the allyship. For me, it was not clear that there are some certain parallels to a mentoring or a mentor, right. Yeah, there are some I would say, because a mentor is also someone who's most of the time a little bit in higher position. So he has some other experiences and just trying to share his knowledge, not the whole time, but maybe. I will think about that a little bit more and will make some research, I think. Okay, coming back to these diversity-sensitive language, what you've said at the end, in January, the Technical University published the guideline for gender sensitive language, with its four principles. Why can this be rated as a milestone? What was the main motivation and how is it related to the dgti-identification?

Anja Wiede: Language, actually, is the central instrument of communication and I think understanding the word for us as humans, and it derives anonymous power from this like again and again we experience how on the one hand, the use of language is intentionally applied to disparage or hurt people. And on the other hand, language can also lead to misunderstandings through careless use. And as a means for more equality, for more access, and like equal opportunities, and non-discriminatory use of language can contribute to raising awareness. We are committed to especially use of words, terms and attribution and ultimately, for making diversity actually visible. And according to the personnel status act, we want and must recognize more than just two gender and this must also be expressed in language. For example, in the use of appropriate forms of address somebody. This means that it must be possible to address people without Mrs. Wiede or Mr. Wiede, because they are like more than two gender. And for this reason, it's also possible at the TU Dresden to have the dgti-identity card recognized. That means for trans people, the official identity documents do often not match their own gender before the official change of name and or civil status and similarly, this can also be the case with external experience. And this often leads to unpleasant stressful and humiliating questions or even dangerous situations during a personal check And therefore, the dgti-identity card is a standardized identity document. The documents also have selected personal data and shall secure and passport photos so that forced outings do not occur.

Kachina: Really cool. I've never heard about this. And I think it's really, really useful. I just recently saw a post on LinkedIn, I think, where they said something about rainbow washing, because now is the one month of pride. Exactly, thank you. And they just made a comparison, I think about from five to six credit institutes who always ask for “Are you male or female?” and haven't offered diversity or non option. There might be some sensibility already, but there's also still a lot to do.

Anja Wiede: Yeah, of course, it is even at TU Dresden.

Kachina: Yeah, for sure.
And this is another really good point, why it's so important that we two came together and talk about this and made these podcasts episode from my point of view, so I'm still really happy here.
Okay, so having heard all these attempts to foster more, including society, and also in our university context, finally, I would like to learn just a little bit more about your function and your daily task at the complaints office. So since when is the complaint office institutionalized at TU Dresden?

Anja Wiede: Yeah, the complaints office is based on the policy on dealing with harassment, discrimination and violence and this was published in 2019. And since 2020, the complaints office has also been available for students. And I have to say that the TU Dresden has actually taken on the pioneering role in this areas throughout Eastern Germany because they are isolated structures at other university, but the fact that students can complain is quite new over here.

Kachina: Ah, okay. But however, from your perspective, is the complaints office already institutionalized known to international students, but also to local students or how to say it?

Anja Wiede: Well, I think too few people know about their right to complain and also about the complaints office. But I also think that far too few people are sensitive to when and where personal border violations happens, for example. Because they are in a situation of dependency or cannot say anything, or because they want to put their focus elsewhere due to pressure to perform, or because the border violations are already so normal, that they are not even perceived as actual border violations, or they are afraid that no one is going to believe them. So raising awareness is definitely the most important step towards prevention and to publicize the complaints office, actually.

Kachina: Okay, I see. That makes totally sense. For me, from my personal perspective, I think the first step was to really figure out “Okay, where are my boundaries? How to react when someone is stepping over my personal boundaries?”. And I have to be honest, I wasn't aware that there are some institutionalized complaints offices or guidelines about gender-sensitive language. So I've learned a lot already and I'm really happy, but I'm also aware there's still lots to do and we'll see what we can do all together. Sum up. Could you kindly advise an example procedure when a person is getting in touch with you at the complaints office? I mean, like, is it an ominous? What are the boundaries of function at the university and where else can individuals or persons affected ask for support. You mentioned already some advisory service besides the institutionalized at the university, but maybe yeah, I would be happy and most probably some more people will be happy to learn a little bit more about that.

Anja Wiede: Yeah. Well, you can contact the complaints office in different kinds of ways like by email by normal mail. I don't know if somebody used it, or by telephone. And depending on the medium, you can first decide for yourself whether you want to give your name or your subject or not. And then it depends on the concern. Most people who contact the complaints office are looking for advice on how to proceed, that can be a mediation, or it will direct them to suitable advisory services in Dresden, as you said before, and then there are people who want to file a complaint. And this means that the procedure is about the request to check to what extent harassment discrimination or violence occurred in order to take measures to prevent a repetition. So I then question all the persons being involved, I look at all the evidence, and well if necessary, and then work out recommendations in direct exchange with the person being involved But also with other offices, such as the legal department or the gender equality commission and this can relate to sanctions, for example, exclusion from seminars, but also to more strategic or structural aspects. And this is the context in which, for example, the queer-peer counselling came into being. And the limits of those procedures are, of course, like many sided, if something happens in private, for example, at a party of students, it can lead to a person who's no longer attending a course because she's afraid of meeting somebody who had done violence to her or him or the person. And actually, as a complaints office, we are not really responsible because it happened in private. But however, we do, of course, take care of it and advisory capacity. And it's also often not possible to implement recommendation because the university itself is a huge and large administrative system with a lot of coordination processes and a lot of persons being involved and these mills actually often grind very, very slowly. So what is important for us at the end, even when those recommendations are not being implemented, it is like participations and sensitization and empowerment and if we don't offer like events or formats for this request, we work together with various instances here in Dresden like “Gerede e.V.”, which advises on gender diversity, then there's for example, the “RAA”, and it advises on white ring motivated and racist violence. And for example, the “DIK” advises on incidents of stalking, and now there comes my kind of advertisement, because a lot of advisory services are listed on my website. And yeah, feel free to visit this website. Yeah, it's a lot of information.

Kachina: Self-advertisement for this important thing, I feel 100%. Thanks for this information. And we will also link, if that's fine for you, from our FUN* website directly to the complaints office, so we have advertisement from two sides. Okay, yeah, thanks for all these insights. So just popped up in my mind, maybe we could also make some kind of Mensa table once in a month, where we can talk with people, I mean not in such a personal context, but maybe raise some awareness about these topics. So let's keep this in mind. And you stay tuned, we'll see if we have something more in the pipeline for you. So we're getting slowly or quite fast, actually, to the end of our episode so far. But are there any workshops right now in place to sensitize TU Dresden employees and teaching assignments regarding language, discrimination, cultural differences, etc. etc. So what we have talked about beforehand. I'm really keen to learn about that.

Anja Wiede: Well, I mentioned my website, and there are a lot of events, which had happened, but there are also a lot of events which will happen. For example, the 25th of November, there is the day of the Elimination of Violence Against Women. There's a huge program which is coming to sensitize for this topic, but there is also the Center for Continuing Education here at TU Dresden, there is this print program for employees who offers various workshops on these kinds of topics. If you subscribe, for example, to the newsletter of the culture magazine of the prorector for university culture, you can also see a lot of offers on a regular basis. And I think there are different student groups like “gnow” or “What”, who establish like non-discriminatory or like formats or events who deal with those kinds of topics.

Kachina: Yeah, perfect. Exactly. “Gnow”, really cool student group, also FrauenUmweltNetzwerk* but we're also trying to do a little bit more in this direction. But slowly, slowly, as you said, the TU Dresden structures are sometimes not pass this one. But I think this is not something what we cannot say because most people know these struggle with big universities. It's not only at TU Dresden. Thank you so much for all these really good insights and your important job here at TU Dresden. So from my side, I can only admit to everyone who's listening right now: If you have any struggles, just get in contact with Anja Wiede. She's really cool, smart and sensitive person and you are not alone when you are struggling. Always look out for help and check your boundaries and also brave to make a first step forward I would say. Last but not least, we talked a lot about interesting topics and gender issues, discriminations, etc., etc., violence. So for the future, do you have any wishes? Or is there something would like to comment on.

Anja Wiede: The future question. Well, I would wish that everyone can be like different and live without fear and exclusion, and that they can develop so freely in their characters, so that everyone can lead a pacifist life, independent of national borders and that's a small wish, from my sight, just a small wish.

Kachina: So it's not that small at all, I would say. Just popped up in my mind, the Sustainable Development Goals, number five, equality. We also fostering a more sustainable future here in this moment, if you want to phrase it like this, or frame it. So I like Utopies or utopias, I would love to live in a utopia. And that is why I am also working for the FemaleEnvironmentalNetwork* or FrauenUmweltNetzwerk* from the Faculty of environmental science. So from your perspective, in which ways can we in our work, integrate or assist you in your work a little bit better? Or how do you see the work of the FUN* in this context? And what can we improve? Or how can we help people in the future?

Anja Wiede: I think, actually, it's pretty great that there's a network like FUN*, I think, a community of solidarity. And yeah, such kind of cool people is incredibly powerful and knowing that you're not alone, and that you are developing common goals is already a big step on the path of equality. That's what I would like to see in the future like, instead of isolation, loneliness, and being alone fighter, people should join forces even more in order to not fight the many in justices alone. But I would also be interested to know how FUN* positions itself in relation to the gender debate, like is it a network for women only? How about other forms of discrimination? What exclusions are generated there? And should these exclusions continue to be generated? Well, I think that requires a lot of communication and a lot of positioning and a lot of debates and a lot of patience. But at the end of the day, it's actually really cool that you offer these podcasts and that you raise awareness of many, many, many issues. That helps us a lot. That helps me a lot. So thank you very much for all the organization and those many, many exciting questions and your kind words.

Kachina: Oh, so I blushed here. Thank you so much. I just can say I'm more than happy that we've finally had the chance to talk about your work in a little bit more deeper contexts. And for me, I was quite nervous because it's the first episode which we worked on in English. I was nervous but

Anja Wiede: Me too. I also was so nervous.

Kachina: I hope it's nevertheless somehow interesting and everyone who's listening please excuse any false pronunciations or wrong words, or strange context. But yeah, we did our best. Yeah, I would say.

Anja Wiede: Maybe we should do a content warning at the beginning, because of the wrong spelling.

Kachina: Yeah, it's such a good idea. We talked about this at the end. Finally, I want to just want to say thank you for your time, thank you for your really important work here the TU Dresden, and I from my side, learned a lot and I'm still in the process of learning. And I think this is something what I just want to tell everyone who's studying or then entering the professional part of your lives. So stay interested, stay open-minded, and don't look away when you see something is happening near around you, in your personal also, in a situation with for you unknown people, because every one of us has a voice, and we should use it to work or to bring a better future for all of us, because all the fights we are having now and also our democracy, we really have to protect. And this is, this is what I want to say. So I'm always happy to get to know cool people who are really smart and also are fighting for the same values like I do, or we as FUN* also try to do. Yeah. Let's keep in touch. And thank you so much, all of you. I hope you had fun listening to this episode.

Kachina: Hello and welcome to the FrauenUmweltNetzwerk*’s new podcast. This episode is called “Careers in Academia.” The FrauenUmweltNetzwerk* offers women at the university a networking platform. We also provide training events that you can get involved in and tackle topics having to do with gender equality. Furthermore, we want to offer our support specifically to women facing challenges in achieving equal career opportunities. You can connect with us and others during the seminars, workshops and excursions we hold. We also offer the opportunity to network beyond your studies. Unfortunately, we are unable to meet in person at the moment due to the pandemic, which is why we decided to make an online podcast. I would like to offer a warm welcome to my two guests from the Graduate Academy. Would you like to introduce yourselves? 

Barbara Könczöl: Thank you for inviting me! I’m Barbara Könczöl, Managing Director of the Graduate Academy, and I’m very happy to be here. 

Angela Böhm: Hello, my name is Angela Böhm and as an Advisor at the Graduate Academy, I’m responsible for career development. 

Kachina: Wonderful, I’m happy we were able to meet today and hope our conversation will be interesting for our listeners. Let’s get started with the first question: Have you yourselves studied for a PhD? 

Barbara Könczöl: I received my doctorate in Leipzig some time ago, in 2007. 

Angela Böhm: I was on the PhD track for a little while, but then decided against it. Doctoral studies simply for the sake of it wasn't right for me after all. 

Kachina: Fascinating, thank you for sharing with us! I’d like to start with the Graduate Academy. What does the Graduate Academy do? What are your tasks there? What goals have you set for yourself? 

Barbara Könczöl: The Graduate Academy is the central service point for all early-career researchers here at TU Dresden, meaning all PhD students and postdocs at the university. We have been around since 2013, when we were established as part of the Excellence Initiative. In general, we provide early-career researchers with a wide range of services in three key areas: qualification, advice and funding opportunities. With regards to qualification, every year, we host over 130 workshops on soft skills (e.g. academic writing, statistical data analysis, science communication, project management, funding applications, management and much more). We also host many additional events such as workshops on career development. As an advisor, Ms. Böhm is responsible for these. Moreover, we have a host of advising services. If you have any questions that we are unable to answer today in the podcast (e.g. about doctoral studies and what happens after your studies), our advisors are happy to help (with career advice, writing consultations, advice on conflicts from a mediator). We also offer coaching. The third area – funding opportunities – concerns money. We offer long-term scholarships both to women who are studying for their PhD and women postdocs. We also provide a lot of short-term scholarships, for example for the completion and wrap-up phase of the doctorate, but also for mobility (conference travel, research stays, etc.). We have special scholarship programs for postdocs to support them as they develop their academic profile and to help increase their visibility. We call these Postoc Starter Kits. 

Kachina: Super, that's quite an extensive array of services! I’ve also been researching the topic a little and brought some facts with me: In 2019, around 28,700 people successfully completed their doctoral studies. The doctoral title is especially important for careers in medicine and science. On average, doctoral studies take between three and five years. 

Angela Böhm: This is especially true if you decide on a career outside of academia. As a rule of thumb, when you leave academia and go into business, the closer your career field is to research, the more important your doctorate becomes. In Chemistry and Biology, you could almost go as far to say that having a doctorate is expected. Having this title is relevant in these fields and postdocs will find it easier and faster to find a job in these areas. 

Kachina: What makes it worth it? Should we even consider a career in this area at all? 

Barbara Könczöl: I personally think doctoral studies are very worthwhile. It gives you the opportunity to study a topic that, ideally, you are extremely passionate about for three to five years and you can really immerse yourself in it. It gives you true intellectual freedom and allows you to discuss ideas. It is, of course, a challenging time and isn’t always smooth sailing, but it can be very exciting. It’s a real opportunity. As Angela already mentioned, job prospects outside of academia are very, very good. The unemployment rate among academics with doctorates remains consistently below 2% and is thus significantly lower than the national average. Most academics are incredibly happy with their jobs. If you want to pursue a career in academia, doctoral studies are a must. In this case, the competition is tougher, because in Germany we have a very high quota of people with PhDs. It has increased by almost 80% in the last 20 years. In contrast, however, there are only around 20% more positions open for professors. Apparently, about 5% of doctoral students – this depends very much on the subject – are later appointed professors. 

Kachina: Very interesting, the statistics are also fascinating. As a Master’s student, I’m now wondering what the requirements would be for me to pursue my doctoral studies? 

Barbara Könczöl: The most important thing, of course, is motivation. You need to want it and to be passionate about your subject. You need to be prepared to spend a long time on one topic. And you also need a supervisor. What’s more, there are also some formal requirements you need to meet. These are laid out in the doctoral regulations, which can vary by subject. We recommend reading over the doctoral regulations. In addition, the Doctoral Examinations Offices provide information. You can also visit us here at the Graduate Academy for an initial consultation. Generally speaking, you will need a university degree (Master’s, Magister or Diplom) that has been graded “good” (“gut”) or above. In some cases, you can begin doctoral studies with a very, very good Bachelor’s degree. You can also come to TUD from another university or university of applied science. Generally, you will need to have a qualification in a subject similar to your doctoral studies subject. If this isn’t the case, you may need to take individual courses to prove your professional qualifications. 

Angela Böhm: I’d just like to add something: We encourage people to pursue doctoral studies. PhD Day takes place every April. On this day, we explain the prerequisites, host taster workshops on good academic practice and on career prospects for PhD holders. We invite Master’s students who aren’t sure if they want to pursue doctoral studies or not and help them weigh up their options. 

Kachina: Great, I’d love to come along. I’m wondering if having a network is important when it comes to finding a supervisor. Should I be proactive during my Master’s studies and start thinking of a PhD topic now or are there official programs that I can apply for? 

Barbara Könczöl: Regarding the topic, this depends on what subject you work in and what kind of PhD you’re looking for. There are different kinds of doctorates, such as individual doctoral studies where you work directly with one, two, or a team of supervisors. There is also the possibility to join a structured doctoral program. For individual doctoral studies in the humanities, prospective doctoral students look for a topic that interests them and where they notice a gap in the research. When they have this topic, they look for a supervisor with a background in this area who could also be interested in this subject. In sciences and engineering, there are a multitude of third party-funded projects from which many topics arise. These are then tailored to suit the supervisors. When picking out a topic, it’s important to speak with potential supervisors and others from the institute to find out if the topic is really new and relevant, and if the time period is feasible. 

Angela Böhm: Your supervisor needs to be knowledgeable in the subject and a little research funding helps but, above all, you and your advisor need to work well together. And how to you find out if you will? You need to talk to them as well as to other PhD students and postdocs. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all supervisor. Since 2017, we have been awarding a prize for good doctoral advising. PhD students can nominate their supervisor and must explain why. We publish the lists of nominees, which could be helpful to you when looking for a suitable supervisor. 

Kachina: That’s a great tip! For me personally and for our listeners, too, I think. Could you explain the difference in the terms “supervisor” and the German “Doktorvater/Doktormutter” (doctorate father/ doctorate mother)? The latter is probably old-fashioned, right? 

Barbara Könczöl: Exactly. It’s an outdated term and is very much related to classical individual doctoral studies, where your supervisor helps you (the “child”) to “birth” your dissertation. In some respects, this is quite nice, as it illustrates a close relationship with your supervisor. The term is very specific to the German-speaking world. In the English-speaking world, you only ever hear the terms “advisor” or “supervisor.” 

Kachina: I like the parent/child image. It shows that when you’re doing your PhD, you’re not alone. And now from an entirely practical perspective: What does a typical day in the life of a PhD student look like? Are there any testimonials you can share with us? Or maybe you can tell us about your personal experiences here? 

Barbara Könczöl: Again, it really depends on what subject you’re working in. If you are working in experimental science, you will be spending your day in the lab and working very closely with a team. In humanities and social sciences, it’s usually a lot lonelier, because you’re working with texts all day. Of course, you still have the opportunity for discussion – at colloquia or conferences, for example – but you definitely spend more time alone here in comparison to other subjects. It also depends on if you are pursuing individual doctoral studies or are participating in a structured program. The environment in which you are working also plays a role, as does how you are financing your PhD and if you are working as a research associate alongside your PhD, in which case you are more firmly integrated (into teaching, research). If you work outside of the university (e.g. in a company) you may have to study for your PhD on the weekend or during your free time. This is why we recommend knowing exactly what works for you before starting your PhD and understanding how you want to get your PhD. 

Angela Böhm: Here’s a small tip for career planning: Studies show that the more closely you’re associated with research institutions, the more likely you are to be able to pursue a career in this area later. In short: If you really want to be a professor, you should seek out close links to the university. This is more difficult with individual doctoral studies, as it’s more difficult to build up a network and start conversations with others. 

Kachina: Thank you for sharing your insights, it’s so interesting. For me especially, it’s great to hear that there’s something for everyone. We have briefly touched on working hours and financing. Are there any particular difficulties that might arise during doctoral studies? Are three to five years really realistic if you need to work full-time at the same time? 

Barbara Könczöl: It really depends on what financing options you have. Even work as a research associate is not always the same. Is the position closely linked to your doctoral subject or is it funded by a third party project, which is unrelated to your doctoral subject? In this case, you will, of course, need more time. It also depends on if you have a full-time or a part-time job and what other responsibilities you have (e.g. teaching duties, advising students). In a structured PhD program, there are scholarships or work positions which are closely related to your PhD topic. If you have a scholarship, you can fully concentrate on your PhD, but you may not be as well integrated. This can also result in disadvantages that cause delays, but it can also have advantages. There is no one-size-fits-all solution – there’s a lot of options to consider. You also have to look at how long the positions are available for. 

Angela Böhm: Yes, you really need to spend time looking at your options and understand what kind of person you are. 

Kachina: I’ve got another question about this. You mentioned teaching. If you're the kind of person who really isn’t suited to this (maybe because you don't like speaking in front of a large group), how should you navigate this? Do all doctoral studies involve teaching? 

Barbara Könczöl: Not necessarily. If you want to remain in academia, it’s definitely useful to gain experience in teaching, at latest as a postdoc. If you already know that you want to work in a research or development department at a company after getting your PhD, you don't necessarily need experience in teaching. But you can get support from TUD. If you have no experience in teaching, the university offers workshops on university didactics. You’re not left without support and I think that is a very important point. 

Kachina: Wonderful, thank you for the tip. I think that's very helpful for our listeners. I've just got a question on financing. This is the biggest worry for a lot of people, I think. When you’ve just finished your Master’s, you’re at a different phase of life and have different goals in comparison to when you started your Bachelor’s. Maybe some people want to start a family or already have children. How can you balance family life with doctoral studies? 

Barbara Könczöl: If you work as a research associate, your contract will be regulated by the collective bargaining agreement. Usually, your position will be an E13 position (between a 50% and full-time position). If it is a position financed by the TUD budget, it is usually advertised for three years. If it is a third party-funded project, it usually depends on the project duration. If you have a scholarship, you can expect between €1,000 and €1,350 a month. Most scholarships are structured for a period of two years initially, which can be extended by one year following the submission of an interim report after the first two years. Some scholarships also include child benefit allowances or a family allowance. Some scholarships take time with children into account, others don't. This is something you’ll need to take a closer look at. You also need to think about what other costs you might have. Do you want to visit conferences, for example? Or have a research stay? Who will finance this? The good news is that if you’re a member of the Graduate Academy, we have a lot of scholarships that cover these extras: We offer travel allowances for conferences or short research stays, and also offer scholarships for the completion and wrap-up phase of your doctorate if you need some more time after three years of study. 

Angela Böhm: And of course you always have the option to enroll as a student – and we would advise you to do so. Then, you also have all the usual student benefits as a doctoral student.  

Barbara Könczöl: Especially when it comes to lunch! 

Kachina: Sweet! Thanks for all the tips. Is there anything else you think we should know? As a student, you of course have some insurance benefits. What about childcare? Do you advise on this, too?  

Angela Böhm: TU Dresden is also really well organized and equipped in this respect. You can contact Unit Diversity Management, they even have flexible childcare there. If you are traveling to a conference or need to attend an event here in Dresden, you can register for this free service. There are also a lot of childcare facilities at nurseries and daycare centers that you can take advantage of. There’s also the Campus Office Uni mit Kind (uni with child) and a lot of offices you can contact when it comes to care. This doesn’t necessarily have to be care for children, it could also be care for parents. There’s a lot of support, you just need to know where you can find it. This is why really urge you to ask questions and seek advice. That's why we and the other offices are here. 

Barbara Könczöl: You can even make use of the flexible childcare arrangements to attend one of our workshops. It’s really no problem. Even internal events like these are covered, which works very well particularly in collaboration with our female colleagues with children. You can contact us or our colleagues and we can talk about it. 

Angela Böhm: It’s really a great thing. 

Kachina: Ace, that sounds great and I didn't know about it. I’m always reminded that it’s good to talk to each other. It’s also amazing that there are so many services at TU Dresden. I hadn't heard a lot about them before. Now to my next question: Does the Graduate Academy have a newsletter? 

Angela Böhm: Of course we do! This is actually something I’m working on, and it's still brand new. In fact, it's our third newsletter after we've been on a break for a while. You can register for our newsletter at anytime on our website. It includes news on what our PhD students and postdocs are up to and we also tell you about projects they’re working on. I think it’s important to give them this stage. The newsletter also includes tips on job vacancies, our services and other funding options. So, you’ll be able to find really useful stuff in our newsletter. 

Barbara Könczöl: We send out it every two months, so that you have enough time to read it before the next one comes – we won't send you something every other day. 

Kachina: So, you register via email on the website and you’re then included in the mailing list? (Nods) Perfect, thank you! We were just talking about childcare. And now, since I’m part of the FrauenUmweltNetzwerk* team, I’d like to move on to some questions that concern women specifically. I’ve researched some facts on this topic, too. In Germany at the moment, there’s still a gender imbalance. Of the 86,000 people who currently hold a doctorate, 65% are men and 35% are women. That being said, the number of women PhD students is growing. Could you tell us why there is a gap and what your personal experiences are? 

Barbara Könczöl: It actually really depends on the subject. For humanities and social sciences subjects at TUD, some subjects have more women (up to 60%). For math and sciences, it’s about 50/50. However, it also varies here depending on the subject. At TUD, engineering has the lowest rates of women PhD students. However, when you compare how many of the students in these subjects are women, the gap is not that big anymore. So it also partly depends on how many women choose a certain subject in the first place. And then some unenroll before earning their doctorate. We could look for reasons for why this is the case. 

Kachina: And if we wanted to look for the reasons why? (All laugh) 

Angela Böhm: If we wanted to look for the reasons why...there’s a lot of discussion on how to get girls interested in these subjects at school. I think that we’re just as talented in subjects like math and engineering and the rest of it. Especially if we look at the history of who invented Bluetooth and who was responsible for inventing the computer, I think we can rest assured we have no problems in this area. My advice to women would be to be more daring. I include myself in that too. We often tend to doubt ourselves more, whether this is due to our education or society. I think we could spend a whole evening talking about this subject alone. It really helps to look for support in this area. We offer workshops explicitly for women. Unit Diversity Management offers workshops specifically on negotiation tactics, appointment negations and more. We should really make use of these and also join forces. A network for women like FUN* is great. We shouldn’t forget – and there are studies on this – that organized networks are a lot more beneficial for the careers of women in academia than they are for men, who have one anyway. So, trust yourself, make sure you’re seen, go to conferences, demand things, put yourself out there and say, “I can do it, I will do it, I want to take this on!” You may want to consider getting involved with a committee as an important source of insider knowledge about an organization. Especially if you know you want a career in academia, you can, for example, get involved in appointment negotiations as a student. Perfect insider knowledge! So I can really recommend these kinds of things to women in particular. 

Kachina: I’m feeling very empowered, that was very beautifully summarized and straight to the point. I think that if I were at the Graduate Academy, I'd be in good hands with you both. The Graduate Academy is brimming with knowledge and competence and I’m really glad that we have something like this. I’d like to know how many women there are at the Graduate Academy? 

Angela Böhm: The figures always change slightly, of course, but we have an almost equal ratio of men and women among both PhD students and postdocs. Right now we have slightly more men completing their doctoral studies, but we have more women postdocs, so in that respect it's leveling out.

Kachina: Exactly 50/50, that’s great. Exactly how it should be in a well-functioning society, I think. Lots of studies confirm this. When we increase discourse between different groups, our society becomes more beautiful and diverse. I’m interested to know what the most common difficulties and problems are, especially for women. Is the main difficulty childcare or insecurity? If you could say anything more about daily life, that would be great! 

Angela Böhm: Those are actually pretty much the two most important points. Childcare is, of course, a huge topic. Especially during the pandemic, this was really challenging for many people. It has to be said that – these are just very basic figures-– 17% percent of doctoral students have children. I thought it would be more. This number includes all genders. There’s always the question of how your career will progress and how to balance everything. In academia, we’re constantly talking about where we think the imbalances are, also with regards to specific subjects. When you’re standing in a lab, this can be more difficult. This is always a source of doubt, also of anxiety about the future. What helps here – again, there are surveys on this we’ve been reading about and we’ve even participated in some – is good support during your doctoral studies. Not only academic support, but also that your supervisor understands that you need time for this. Emotional support and support in career planning are extremely helpful. Especially if you have children, you might be anxious about the future, as you have completely different needs in terms of life and financing, etc. A good choice of supervisor is also very important for this. When we read the nominations for the supervisor prize, it’s always great to read that especially with regard to women understanding was a big theme (time, understanding, permission to bring the children with you etc.). This should be the norm and should go without saying, but it’s not always the case. It is increasing though and so is the support. That’s the great thing about TU Dresden. 

Barbara Könczöl: Exactly. And alongside your supervisor, who is of course very important as Angela already said, there a lot of additional advisory services. There are also workshops on work-life balance. You can consult Unit Diversity Management on these topics. You’re not left to deal with it on your own. There are quite a few opportunities for support out there. This is the topic of a workshop we offer on resilience and stress management: How can I balance everything? We want to offer you support in this, too, as best we can and also have services within the Graduate Academy. You may also want to check out the services at Unit Diversity Management. They also offer a lot of support and I would recommend making use of this. You don't have to solve all your problems by yourself. You can find a lot of help. 

Angela Böhm: Especially with regard to career planning, a lot of women decide not to stay in academia, and sometimes that’s the right decision. Everyone needs to decide for themselves. There’s always the same question that comes up again and again: How do I manage parental leave, how do I get a job outside of academia as a mother? In this case too, women are a lot more hesitant and often more uncertain. Job application workshops can help a lot with this – I lead these myself. We also specifically offer courses for women, where you can ask questions that a man might not necessarily understand, although I have to say that conversing with the younger generation of men is different to what I'm used to. Men take parental leave now, too, and give tips, and they have this wonderful solidarity with each other. I think that’s great. But you have to take responsibility and really get things moving yourself. That’s why we’re here. We’re waiting and we’re happy to help. 

Kachina: Wonderful, I’m less anxious now and am starting to want to pursue my own doctorate (laughs). I think the academic environment is great because you can just spend your time discovering new things and you have the chance to really get to know a topic in great detail. Also, people communicate with each other respectfully and really want to bring about change, or contribute to it in a small way. I find that so exciting. Especially when we are talking about the long term and planning for the future – which women on average perhaps value more than men – if you currently have an academic position or a fellowship that is limited to a few years, I would again appeal to all women to make use of the available funding opportunities and also to give greater consideration to the Graduate Academy. How do you become a member of the Graduate Academy? 

Barbara Könczöl: Luckily, this is very easy to do (laughs). You can become a member as soon as you are accepted as a PhD student at a faculty and can submit a signed agreement with your supervisor This is important to us, and you need to conclude a target agreement with your supervisor in any case. Then you can become a member. Membership is free of charge. You need to register via Promvendus, which is the same system you need to register with for your doctoral studies. You will then be asked if you would like to become a member of the Graduate Academy. If you click “yes,” a new window will open. You’ll need to fill out a short form (it really is short) and upload the agreement with your advisor. Then after some time you will be accepted as a member. We’ll notify you of this. It’s even easier for postdocs. You need to have an employment contract at TU Dresden or a scholarship or to be working at the Helmholz-Zentrum Dresden-Rossendorf as a postdoc and it’s just a matter of a few clicks. 

Kachina: That leaves us with nothing much else to say except: Do it! Believe in yourself! Doctoral studies now don’t seem as unattainable as before. I hope we were able to deliver a lot of interesting insights and to let you know who you can contact. The Graduate Academy is, as far as I understand it, a very good recommendation. My two tough but very kind conversation partners just now have definitely given me the courage to take the first step. The Graduate Academy is the first port of call. Do any other important points of contact at TU Dresden come to mind? 

Angela Böhm: For international PhD students, the International Talent Project is a good point of contact. They take care of international students and doctoral candidates who want to gain a professional foothold in Germany, beyond academia. There are other hurdles you have to overcome when looking for a job in Saxony. That's just one thing that comes to mind. 

Barbara Könczöl: Exactly. I would also recommend the Welcome Center, especially for international PhD students, because they offer a lot of support. They don't just help you with visits to government offices and the like, it’s also a good place to meet people. Networking is really an important aspect. We at the GA also do that too, of course. We organize events – these are now mostly online due to Covid, which is something new for us – but normally we host a summer festival, a career day and PhD Day and much more. But I would definitely recommend the Welcome Center to international students. And sometimes the Schools offer services too, such as networking events. There's also the Doctoral Council, our doctoral student representation. It’s important to note that as a member of the Graduate Academy, you can get involved. You can choose who represents you. The council represents all members of the Graduate Academy and the Speaker is a member of the Graduate Academy’s Executive Board and is therefore also involved in decision-making. This person also serves as a guest in the Senate. Therefore, you can network as a group. The Doctoral Council usually organizes events, and you can suggest topics for these yourself. Even if you're not an elected member, they are still happy to hear your suggestions. And the great thing is: We don’t just have a Doctoral Council, we also have a Postdoc Council for those who have received their doctorate. This is really great. They were elected for the first time this year. The council is made up of eleven postdocs – seven from TUD and three from Helmholtz-Zentrum Dresden-Rossendorf. Likewise, their Speaker has a seat on the Graduate Academy’s Executive Board. So they have a opportunity to network amongst themselves too. Maybe also with others from different subjects. They can also take matters into their own hands and contribute to the visibility of their group. 

Kachina: Ace! Wow! You’re really well-informed and it’s such a delight to talk with you about it. I really hope I can take advantage of the Graduate Academy’s services in the future, if I decide to pursue my doctorate. Otherwise, I would like to encourage any of our listeners who are interested in this to simply get in touch! There’s plenty of girl power to be found here and there are plenty of funding programs and support. I think it's a good decision to pursue a career in academia. And here’s a small preview for you: There will probably be a second podcast episode. This one will be more focused on topics of interest to postdocs. I’m looking forward to the next episode, and I want to say a big thank you to our guests – the FrauenUmweltNetzwerk* will be in touch again. Thank you so much! 

Barbara Könczöl and Angela Böhm: Yes, thank you to you too, it was a lot of fun and definitely become a member! We look forward to you joining! We’ve got your name now! 

KACHINA BARMBOLD: So, here we go.

JOCHEN RICHTER: Super.

KACHINA BARMBOLD. The first FUN* podcast! I’m thrilled to be able to welcome Jochen Richter here today. Perhaps you would like to introduce yourself? What is your position at TU Dresden and why are we sitting down with each other today?

JOCHEN RICHTER: Gladly. Thank you very much for the invitation. I am grateful to have the privilege of appearing on the premiere episode. My name is Jochen Richter, I work in Unit Occupational Health Services at TU Dresden. I'm a psychologist, responsible for psychosocial counseling and coaching for staff members. They are welcome to contact us with any issues they would like to discuss – problems, anxiety, concerns – both personal and professional. And they can then visit us in person for counseling. I have one colleague, a second psychologist, meaning that our Unit also handles occupational integration management, which includes conflict management and mediation. Perhaps some listeners have already had occasion to contact them. Those are some of the topics we deal with, and as I mentioned: Unit Occupational Health Services – that means that we are officially grouped together with the entire occupational health bit. That means we’re a motley crew at Occupational Health Services.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Ah yes, ok, cool, interesting. So. Then, for our listeners, I’ll just explain briefly why we at FUN* are chatting with you today. We had the idea of starting a podcast series since our main order of business – networking in person – has fallen by the wayside thanks to the pandemic, or rather as a result of the pandemic. And so we have decide to create a podcast series. Another result of the pandemic is that we’ve decided to start this off by shining more light on mental health. Right, so I think we should just dive right in. We already chatted a bit beforehand. The first question is dedicated to your own experiences. What sorts of concerns or anxieties do staff or students or even you yourself have experience with? What are the most urgent concerns and anxieties that people are dealing with at this time at TU Dresden?

JOCHEN RICHTER: Well. Yes, I can share a bit of what staff have come to me or to us with. The Studentenwerk has a Psychosocial Counseling Office for students. That’s a separate thing altogether, but we are of course in contact with them. We also have colleagues from the Central Student Information and Counseling Service with whom we also remain in contact. So I should be frank: My information about students is secondhand information from our networks. However, the information that I do have, I have just recently received from Ms. Blum, the head of the Central Student Information and Counseling Service. It is indeed what you would expect – motivation is lost a bit when students have to attend university online. It’s difficult to bring structure to your day. Of course, the SLUB and other buildings were closed for a long time. People didn’t have social contact. And in some cases, people begin to develop doubts surrounding their studies. Am I suited to this? Am I doing the right thing? They start to consider dropping out, experiencing self-reproach, and these are topics that show up in the Central Student Information and Counseling Service. Funnily enough, I just saw a tweet from TUD yesterday or today regarding further plans. I’m at the age where I still look at tweets instead of Instagram or anything like that. And I believe it was the Vice-Rector who tweeted that preparations are being made so the winter semester can take place on site wherever possible. Which, from my personal point of view, would be excellent. Of course, we must heed the Covid regulations, but this has consequences, too, if, for example, I can’t take part in the student life that I had expected and looked forward to – for instance going to the canteens with others and going to parties, et cetera. Of course that’s part of the package. So, the fun part, so to speak, of being a student has been missing since March 2020, and we can’t expect that not to have consequences. Yes, and on top of that, there is currently a lot going on at the Central Student Information and Counseling Service regarding everything associated with going to university, but also psychological and social issues that have really increased in this regard. At this juncture, I’d like to talk about another couple things regarding the Studentenwerk’s Psychosocial Counseling Office. They always issue a really great annual report with excellent statistics. That is to say, they investigate why people – students – visit the Psychosocial Counseling Office. From their report, it was clear that in 2020, there was indeed a shift in reasons for coming to counseling. There were more reports of depression, learning disorders and anxiety, a general sense of worry, and the report showed that these were clearly a result of the pandemic and the pressure of attending university online. For staff – a particular, or at least different group from the students – there were challenges in getting to grips with daily life, but they are different. And this is something that I experience directly. They come to me – meaning I can report firsthand and this is not scientifically founded, but rather a subjective explanation – and those who were relatively stable prior to the pandemic manage to get through these times. But colleagues of mine who perhaps already struggled with certain things before are indeed having a more difficult time with this. It was clear to see – and this could ultimately go hand-in-hand with the FrauenUmweltNetzwerk – that parents face the extra burden of homeschooling their kids. And this may be a bit of a stretch, but I would say that a small group that was really hit hard were single parents without a partner – usually women – some of whom are also working on their doctorate at the same time. That means that they are really stretched thin. Frequently, they don’t even realize what an objectively heavy load they are carrying until they come to me to talk about it. They are working on a doctorate, which is typically hard enough on its own with the time and effort required, and then they have one or two children to take care of and teach at home and then on top of that need to look after their own health somehow. Well, I could hardly expect that to just bypass me unnoticed. So, that’s one group where you have to say: Yes, they simply have had a very particular set of stress factors to deal with in the past months to one and a half years.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: That sounds a bit horrifying, if I’m being honest. This leads me to my next question: Did TUD offer any services or programs to support this group of people in particular? I mean in addition to Psychological Counseling for members of staff.

JOCHEN RICHTER: Actually, yes, and it happened pretty quickly. When we were in a proper lockdown last year, the university opened up a counseling hotline for a while. We didn’t really know what was going to happen next with counseling. Face-to-face was impossible in any case, and it took a while to move things to an online space. But there was a period when there was a counseling hotline, where many colleagues who work in similar fields at TUD or who simply wanted to get involved – some of them volunteers – came to offer their support. That was a good tool for bridging this gap, and otherwise, you always have to take a look at the different groups. It’s hard to make any general statements. For instance, people with international backgrounds were also a specific group. There were individual cases that I took on where you have to imagine that you’re from somewhere in India or South America or somewhere else in the world and you arrived here at the beginning of March 2020 to work on your doctorate or to work elsewhere at our University of Excellence, probably in academia, and a week later you’re in lockdown. Right, what do I do now? I’m in a completely foreign country. I don’t know my way around. Those were in part truly difficult situations. And I have to say, many colleagues from other Units took it into their own hands to moderate Facebook groups and made efforts to facilitate networking in that way, but it was definitely a difficult time. However, fingers crossed, I think this has improved since then. And perhaps also – so that this doesn’t all come across so negatively – there were, at least in part, positive things that came out of all this. Digitalization, for example. When everything is finally in place, people tell me firsthand that it can actually be quite comfortable, and I now have a greater appreciation for working from home, for example. For instance, for parents in particular, it can be useful to be able to stay home every now and then, for example if your child is sick. And everything is a little bit more relaxed. There’s no longer this pressure of, “Hey, you know that you’ve got to be at the office by 8:30,” but rather there is a greater understanding now that many things can be done just as well from home. So, these are the positive effects that shouldn’t go unmentioned.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Yes, absolutely. But what you just said, that’s also been reflected a lot in the press – that care has again slipped back to being more so women’s work. And your comments about the challenges international people face make sense, too. It’s crazy, of course, to be somewhere abroad and the Covid pandemic is raging on in your homeland but you really don’t have the opportunity to travel back. I feel like it’s really important that you all are there for people, especially in these difficult times.
Now, I’d like to turn our attention back to the students. I’ve done a bit of cursory research and stumbled upon an article where I was really taken aback. According to the article, BARMER [health insurance provider] claimed in the 2018 Doctors’ Report that one in six students suffers from symptoms of a mental disorder. These included listlessness, despondency, but also fear of what the future brings. I’m sure this has also worsened dramatically in the course of the pandemic, in line with what you were just saying. And 86,000 students already suffer from serious depression. I wrote down a striking quote I found to go with this, where someone said, “It’s hard to really find peace during your studies if you have a thousand windows open in your head at once.” What’s your reaction to this? Is there something from your work, or even your personal life, that supports this? This quote really resonated with me because I often feel the exact same way. With your studies, you’re never really done with anything. It’s not like a side job or many other types of work where you can put down your pen at 6:00 pm, go home and enjoy your evening.

JOCHEN RICHTER: Yes. Yes, I think there’s some truth to that. Ultimately, one’s time at university is also a phase, but it’s different from school, where you have a set schedule – here’s a test, then you get your report cards or certificates, then it’s summer break. At university, you have to manage your time by yourself and establish your own structure. And structure is a keyword, I think, that is essential to your studies. Truly studying, and learning how to study, also means learning to seek help and support. It’s not always possible to do everything independently right away. This could mean booking courses or seeking out counseling, talking with friends and peers and asking them: How are you dealing with this? It requires swallowing one’s pride and saying, “I might really need support if I notice that things aren’t going as I want them to.” Definitely. Sometimes you have to really take stock and ask yourself, “Is this actually a psychological disorder or could it be developing into one? Am I too burdened in my everyday routine? When I’m depressed, for example, I really can’t even get off the couch. Or am I just in a phase where I have a lot of tests, for example, or I have to write a seminar paper and it’s really okay to say, ‘Hey, you really have a lot on your plate. See if you could reorganize yourself and move some things around. Can I maybe write my seminar paper next semester instead?’” Things like that. This is a really personal matter, but it is also a challenge that all students face – period. Ultimately, that is just part of studying. And when you have graduated, you can also look back on this with lots of newly attained knowledge – more than just the theory you learn from books, but also lots of practical knowledge about yourself and your organizational skills and how to structure your life. That’s also a result of studying.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: It’s really nice that you’ve just said, “Can I maybe write my seminar paper next semester instead?” Because I also have the feeling that this really reflects our own ambitions – this pressure and this expectation to get really good grades only get more intense. I also brought a quote with me from a person who said, “I look at society and I see functional people.” This workload placed upon me – as part of my studies or as part of my doctorate or as part of my work in general – we always have the feeling that society or someone somewhere has set the bar so high and we are just always rushing to keep up, often causing us to overexert ourselves. What would you say? Are there certain signals that we give ourselves – these symptoms that we just spoke about might serve as signals in a way. Is that fair to say? But can you perhaps think of any other signals from a psychological point of view where one could say, “Okay, now I should take a step back and say, ‘Okay, maybe I'll stay an extra semester just so that I’m not suffering anymore.’”

JOCHEN RICHTER: Yes. As a rule, I would really encourage people to step back and reflect every now and then, especially when they notice that they’re not doing so well. It’s a bit cliché, but if I notice a change, like if I notice that something is different, for example I’m not going out partying anymore is maybe a poor example, but maybe I’m not going to the movies anymore or I stop practicing my hobbies, things like that where I notice that something is happening and I’m not sure where it’s coming from – or maybe I do; maybe I am very self-aware and notice that I just have too much on my plate. For me the weekend blends together with the work week – signals like that are important to recognize. And that can work out okay for a time. In principle, stress doesn’t have to be something negative. People need stress because it gives us focus. Taking an exam without a certain feeling of stress probably wouldn’t be so advantageous, for example. But when this goes on for a longer period of time and I still haven’t accomplished what I set out to do, and meanwhile three other things have been added to my to-do list, then I have to ask myself: “Is this really sustainable?” This reminds me of a quote as well. I have to think for a second to make sure I say it right. It was Ralf Minge who said it and whom some people in Dresden may still know because of his close ties with Dynamo Dresden. I’m not a soccer fan myself, so I have to be a bit vague. But people know Ralf Minge when it comes to the Dresden soccer scene. He was at TU Dresden’s Health Week and took part in the roundtable discussion 2 years ago, in 2019, and he talked fairly candidly about the burnout he suffered, and he said something pretty impressive. I can’t quote him word for word, but he said something like he somehow leaped from result to result, from achievement to achievement, but couldn’t enjoy anything anymore. He checked things off a list, was successful in some way or another, but then immediately had 3 new things to do. And I thought that was a good, very realistic description of overload, whether you want to call it a burnout or something else, that is a signal that you really have to pay attention to. If I’ve finally taken a test that was on the horizon, am I relieved it’s over?  You should be – it’s a big accomplishment. And you should take a day’s break if possible or at least reward yourself in some way or another. Give yourself a pat on the back and say, “Hey, great job!” Sometimes that’s missing. And that reminds me of something else that I read in an interview somewhere conducted by stress researchers that said something like, “We have forgotten how to do nothing.” That also resonated with me because it’s such a good point. We often feel guilty if we aren’t doing anything and think, “Well, actually I should...” Yes, perhaps it’s true that we actually should be doing something, but then you have to plan, and this includes planning in breaks where you can truly do nothing without feeling bad about it. We could go on and on.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: I see, and you really hit the nail on the head with a few of those things. Would you say that vacation is a form of self-help? Or simply just leaning back and relaxing? We’ve actually already reached a point where people are talking more about mindfulness and self-care that we can be practicing. Can this help? And the next question then: How can we actually achieve this during the pandemic and with a view to climate change? This will continue to be highly relevant. I’ll just say now without any supporting evidence what my opinion is. But maybe our society will wait on even greater challenges in the future. How can we manage as a whole to ensure that no one gets lost along the way? How can we relieve this difficult situation a bit? It’s an enormous issue, really.

JOCHEN RICHTER: Yes. Yes, indeed. It is difficult indeed. Ultimately, I can only offer a psychological perspective. The climate issue is a completely different one in this regard. But with respect to the psyche, definitely – or rather, the question was about vacation. Of course, that is part of the package. Here I can provide another example from daily life. Our day, at least for those of us in the Western World, is structured around a work week followed by a weekend. But we also have a workday, during which we have a lunch break and – in a best case scenario – time in the evening or in the morning where we don’t do anything, or at least take time to do something nice. So, we actually already have a break integrated into our day. The morning, the evening and our lunch break – these are scheduled. And our working hours are also legally regulated. Weekends are also regulated by law because it is important to have a few days of work and then an extended break. This is also the purpose of paid leave during the year. Applying the same principle, we work for a few months, more or less, and then we get several days of rest. In simplified terms, this is the time in which we should recharge our batteries. If we’re stressed, we can always try to relieve some of this stress in our daily lives, that is to say we can provide relief in the areas that cause negative stress, and on the flip side of the coin, there is a certain buffer against stress. We have certain resources to recharge, for instance we can practice a hobby or get involved in a community group or bring our children to the playground. All of these things – time with our families – just because we’ve got a lot on our plates doesn’t mean that these other things lose importance. Of course, we need to take vacation. What do we need out of a vacation? And I think, whoever keeps tabs on the media has been privy to many different strategies. Of course, many people like to go camping, for example, and many campsites are booked up or are unavailable because one such strategy is to find a way to go on vacation even in these difficult times of lockdown and have some sort of new experience. I was recently at the hair salon and was chatting with a woman there who was talking about how she was going on vacation near Meißen, essentially right next door to Dresden. But why not? It’s a beautiful area and the most important thing is to just take some distance from everyday routines and really just shut off. You can relax and do something else and really just recharge your battery to return more energized for the time that follows.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Your haircut looks great, by the way.

JOCHEN RICHTER: There’s not much left.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: For our listeners, I’d like to just jump in here briefly. I think you’ve just addressed another really important point for me, or rather you reminded me of it. Whenever we are connected to our computers, and this is also the case when working from home, it becomes more difficult to plan these times of rest into our day. Maybe you have a tool or a piece of software or something that can control your screen time and that you actually follow, but for some of us it’s difficult to program into our brains that this is really important and we need to take it seriously and actually follow what these tools are telling us to do. Especially when it comes to spending time with children. So, if you have any tips there, please don’t be shy.

JOCHEN RICHTER: Yes, at the end of the day it is at least in part a matter of self-discipline. But on the other hand, we have to remain pragmatic. I can sit here or I can sit in an advisory session and tell you what’s useful and what is good in theory, but if it’s simply not practicable in your daily routine or you can’t keep up a certain habit for longer than a brief time, then it’s actually not useful at all. This means that as a student, I might not subscribe to typical daily rhythms anyway. So, I need a different, more flexible solution. Perhaps one where I don’t set specific times each day, but rather plan more in weeks where I ensure that there's at least one day where I can just be really lazy and watch Netflix the whole day or something, and just make sure that I then set aside time to catch up on things on another day. So you have to just look and see what is practicable for you. And I’m really not a pro in this area, but I hear from other colleagues that there are many tools that people can use, for instance to block access to apps and such. In general, I don’t think it’s such a bad idea because anything that works is good. I personally would like to motivate people to try and figure out what their own issue is. For instance, our phones are typically just on the table next to us and for me, it’s sometimes helpful to just turn on flight mode and put it in the next room. Just getting up to go look at it while what I actually am doing is studying at the table is then already a great enough hurdle that I won’t be as tempted to do it.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Great, that sounds really easy but also enlightening. I’ll try that out myself. I’ve just read an interesting fact stating that depression and mental disorders are now twice as common in over-30-year-old students, which would also apply to many employees of TU Dresden. Do you have an explanation for why this is and what is simply the result of living conditions today or – I recently read in VICE that Generation Y tends to suppress unpleasant emotions in keeping with the adage that ignorance is bliss.

JOCHEN RICHTER: Oh, okay!

KACHINA BARMBOLD: I found that somehow funny and wanted to mention it just to see what you would say about that.

JOCHEN RICHTER: That’s interesting. I’ve never heard that statistic before. I’d have to just speculate here. Typically, the most common mental disorders manifest relatively early, when people are still in their 20s, I think. Perhaps colleagues working on their doctorate and who are a little older might find it a bit more difficult to find connections at the university, but that’s really just speculation. It’s difficult. Right, I assume that the statistics are reliable and that the relations are correct, but I can’t offer anything more than speculation.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: That’s okay. It was worth asking. And on the topic of suppressing unpleasant emotions, we could take this a step further and say that people’s own plans are constantly being overthrown and people are constantly rethinking how to become more flexible and so on, and younger people in particular have very high expectations of what their future employers could offer them, or how lecturers at university could teach or what mentors for doctorate studies can do, etc. But of course this is also paired with anxiety about what comes after graduation, from fear of unemployment to intensified self-doubt or worry about the future, especially because of the pandemic. And working too hard plus self-doubt and fear of the future can make us a little helpless. It’s a bit elusive to me how we can deal with this in looking forward.

JOCHEN RICHTER: Yes, in general with regard to anxiety, there is no way around it. You have to look it in the eyes. It’s not there for no reason; either there’s something behind it or something that leads to it. If we assume that the person in question isn’t so anxious that we consider it a disorder where seeking out medical or therapeutic help would really help the issue, but rather if, indeed, it is just vague fear of the future, then it really helps to consider, “What is something specific that I can do in this situation?” In what you were just saying about the feeling of helplessness, it is always something that is super uncomfortable for us as people. That means, I have to somehow see to it that I take action. I would actually like to take the matter into my own hands and see what options I have. For instance, if I were really in such a situation, I’d say, “Gee, there are so many advisory services at TU Dresden, there’s the Career Service – I hope that’s correct – the Career Service that paves the path to help take this leap from university to professional life. Or maybe I want to stay at the university and pursue a doctorate and so on.” There are plenty of possibilities, lots of choice – which of course can also be overwhelming because selecting one thing means choosing not to do 1,000 others. But ultimately, these are the moments where it’s really worth doing this. I would like to encourage people to take action and to take on the role again where you make your own decisions in life. And if you don’t have enough information, seek it out. Use your network. Speak with friends and peers, doctoral candidates who are already active at the Chair or do an internship where you can look over someone’s shoulder. There are so many possibilities. Use them. And perhaps from a more psychological perspective, fear of the future is often very vague. That is to say, people have thoughts such as “Oh man, I’ll never find a place to work.” And if you look at the reality of the situation, they aren’t that realistic. So it’s worth really questioning what you think you know. If you notice that you’re ruminating on a certain thought too much, really ask, is what I’m manufacturing in my head really realistic? That’s important. It probably isn’t as bad as you think.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Lovely. I think you’ve addressed yet another important aspect. I’m just wondering, especially if someone is brand new in the city and has enrolled as a student, then they probably don’t have such a large friend circle and might feel somewhat alone. And if they are a bit shy, they might not want to attend all these events and networking opportunities or take the first step on their own. What would you say – is there anything from your work that you can share? Is there a standard recommendation you make to people who are a little bit more introverted to help them take that leap?

JOCHEN RICHTER: First of all, anyone who has managed to start a new chapter of their life in a new city already shows a certain aptitude. That’s really something where you have to say, “Hey, if I can dare to move to a new city, then I’ve already done something huge.” Of course there are some colleagues and students who are a bit more reserved by nature. They could also perhaps try to start off by taking advantage of certain online events and programs. That is sometimes a bit easier. But I’d say that in general, if these things are difficult for you and you want to change – I mean, there are plenty of people, it must be said, who don’t have such a vast network but they are totally satisfied, that’s also fine and then there’s nothing that needs doing. But if you are impeded by a lack of connections and you’d actually like to have more friends or a vaster network, then action must be taken. It’s very likely that you can’t just sit around at home and people will come to you. Rather, you have to get up and get out there somehow. I would encourage these people to take advantage of the programs and services that exist and will hopefully take place again soon – from athletics to volunteer work, or even smaller clubs. It doesn’t even have to be something big or have to do with sports if you’re not a sporty person. There are different places you can go from a knitting club to – well, whatever other opportunities there are out there – but just take advantage of what there is. Because as I said, it has to be clear that if you’re not satisfied with a certain area of your life, then you can’t keep repeating the same things tomorrow that you did today expecting a different result. You have to do something to evoke change. And this can be taking small steps. You don’t have to suddenly become the life of the party, but at least dare to get out there. And if you don’t do that, then you won’t have the experience that it works. If I talk to someone who used to be a stranger and notice how nice it was or that they were really interested in me or said something that I really found interesting – nothing can replace this experience.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Lovely. Excellent presentation of the matter, a real glass-half-full statement. Personally, I would add that it’s important not to be discouraged by setbacks and to maintain a bit of resilience. To say, “Okay, I didn’t really need that conversation, but at least I had it and am really certain of my opinion or my own position.”

JOCHEN RICHTER: Absolutely.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: All in all, I think we can say that people don’t generally have bad intentions for others right when meeting them, especially if both are new in a city or new to a job or are planning to take the next step in the realm of academia. And that reminds me, I learned a small fact at Akademikus in 2020 in the same vain as the glass being half full. It’s really only a below-average proportion of academics who actually end up unemployed. In 2018, it was only 2.2%.

JOCHEN RICHTER: That’s almost none.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: There’s really no need to be so worried.

JOCHEN RICHTER: No.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: So, now we’ve also talked about a few positive aspects and topics. But I’d like to turn our attention now to the topic of loneliness. For me personally, it often has an element of shame associated with it. Many people don’t feel comfortable admitting that they feel lonely. What can be done about it?

JOCHEN RICHTER: If we’re really talking about the feeling of loneliness, then it’s important to briefly make an important distinction. Feeling lonely is, as it sounds, a feeling. It may be that I have an enormous circle of friends, but I still feel lonely. The opposite can also be true: Maybe I have a very small network, but I don’t feel lonely in the least. Making this separation or distinction at least is important. But if I have this feeling of loneliness, then I have to try and figure out where it’s coming from. Are my relationships not close enough or is it perhaps also a symptom of something else below the surface? Of course, it’s a very common feeling that’s also linked to many mental disorders, so it requires taking a closer look and finding out where it’s coming from. On the other hand, it should be clear that, yes, perhaps it is associated with shame, but if you don’t do anything to fight it, it won’t get any better. So you end up between a rock and a hard place and are forced to take action.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Great. So, sort of to remove the taboo aspect and to have the courage to broadcast the feeling.

JOCHEN RICHTER: By the way, speaking of freeing things of taboo, this is a topic that has sort of freed itself of taboo over the years, at least a little bit, and rightly so, even if it is still somewhat overshadowed by shame. But, for example, several years ago, England founded a Commission on Loneliness, and things like this mean that it has already been acknowledged as a problem. And yes, I think it really just has dare to emerge from the darkness.

KACHINA BARMOLD: And just to expand on this, what could lecturers at the university change or how could they better deal with students in general taking this step and communicating to them that they are struggling and feel lonely, or even in a working or doctoral studies context? Do you have any ideas?

JOCHEN RICHTER: I think my feeling would be that I am overburdening the teaching staff with issues like this. I would probably refer students and staff to the counseling professionals instead, saying something like, “Wow, thank you for opening up to me like this, that shows that you trust me,” maybe adding that my own limits – or, unless it’s about simply having a conversation or finding the right clubs or courses at the university – that would be one thing. But if I notice that there is a real burden associated with the inquiry, I would prefer to refer to the Studentenwerk’s Psychosocial Counseling Office or to my office.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Great. There’s one topic that we still haven’t touched on and that is addiction. That can quickly turn into a downward spiral. It could start out as fun – drinking alcohol at parties or maybe even consuming other substances, but even medication or sedatives for sleeping or stress issues, or maybe even gaming – I can’t get away from the computer and I just want to game all the time and stay in my own little world. What sorts of experiences have you had with this?

JOCHEN RICHTER: Right, this fits in well with things that are masked in shame. Addiction is still an absolutely stigmatized issue, unfortunately. TU Dresden is constantly making developments in this area. There has long been a service agreement on the topic. Now, there is also a special contact for matters of addiction, and incidentally, that’s me. Indeed, this is a topic that, I think, will be of even greater concern in the coming years because, especially with regard to alcohol – that’s something that’s always around that can indeed pose a problem. But behavioral forms of addiction are also on the rise – gaming, shopping, gambling, addiction to prescribed drugs is also a big issue. Particularly at universities, there’s also this unfortunate combination of uppers and downers – if I want to boost myself a bit, then I’ll take a stimulant, and if I want to come back down again, I’ll take something to bring me back down. This is not good, of course. If at some point I notice – and there are clear-cut criteria: When is an addiction an addiction? Or a dependency? But I would say here again, if I notice that something has changed in me or I have the feeling that I’m losing control, I have a strong need for something, I don’t really want to take a drug or pursue the same behavior anymore but I keep on doing it, then I have to notice that I’ve overstepped a boundary. Am I then motivated to seek help or not? That’s always difficult with addiction. But of course we can always implore the support system for addiction disorders to do something. And it’s really great in Dresden, especially in Dresden. So, there are many opportunities for help. I would like to encourage people, if you have even a spark of motivation to make a change and escape from harmful behavior patterns, either come to us, go to the Studentenwerk’s Psychosocial Counseling Office, or even straight to other counseling offices. There are truly wonderful people there, some of whom I know personally, who can help you. I can only encourage you to see them.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Got it. That sounds great. That also has a bit to do with behavior, right? Or is this the wrong context?

JOCHEN RICHTER: No, that’s exactly right. There are thousands of models showing how addiction occurs, but ultimately, it can also have to do with learned behavior. How can I reward myself? For example, with alcohol, or if we take the scenario from before with loneliness, I’m having a problem at a party trying to talk to people, then I might drink something beforehand so that it’s easier and boom! Suddenly, I’ve learned that drinking alcohol is good. That’s a simplified example, but this is how easy it is for such a mechanism to form. And if I also have a genetic predisposition on top of that, an inherited trait, then it can go even quicker than that.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Okay, then you could say it has something to do with one’s own feeling of self-worth. Especially with alcohol, it makes you feel like your self-worth has increased. Or maybe with other substances from the party scene – how can one flip the switch? That is, if you’ve had good initial experiences with drugs, how can you learn to manifest a higher self-worth within yourself instead of associating it with a specific substance?

JOCHEN RICHTER: Yes, yes it’s important to be attentive. But perhaps it’s already a step in the right direction to notice that you’re relying on a substance to give you your self-worth. Or certain addictive behaviors or something. But if possible, set a clear approach for yourself: If you have the feeling that you don’t value yourself so highly, make sure you’re aware that self-worth comes from within. Whatever you think of yourself, that’s what you are. And make sure you pay attention, and maybe become more mindful of your personal successes in your studies, for instance – it doesn’t have to be a huge exam or anything, although that is an enormous success, but also the smaller things, such as a presentation you held or something else you worked on. All of these things are little victories deserving of praise and positive feedback, which is typically given. But colleagues or fellow students with particularly low self-worth tend to overlook this praise or categorize it wrongly. For example, they don’t hear the positive things or – let’s take the example of having taken and passed a test: People with a lower self-worth will think, “Well, it doesn’t count because it was easy and the proctor was nice.” People with a higher self-worth will recognize, “Great, I studied well and there was a difficult question there that I still got right. Excellent job.” And this is deserving of recognition. That’s a pattern of thinking that people should work on and continually consider if the test really was easy or was it just a completely normal test that they did well on. Am I allowed to pat myself on the shoulder? Is my boost in self-worth justified? Yes! Acknowledging and accepting success in whatever form it comes sounds easier than it is sometimes, even if it’s a difficult issue that’s really been bothering me. This is something that could also be a topic of therapy or a course in recognizing self-worth – yes, there are also such courses, but –

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Does TU Dresden offer these types of course, too?

JOCHEN RICHTER: I don’t think there’s anything specifically from TU Dresden, but it’s usually integrated in other courses that address mental skills such as resilience ...

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Excellent, resilience is the keyword of the day, I think. I think we’ve gotten through the greatest hurdles that students or even staff have to overcome. Or can you think of something important that we haven’t yet addressed at all?

JOCHEN RICHTER: We could probably keep talking for quite some time and there would still be a few points that we wouldn’t have covered that come up in consultations, but yes, we have touched on most of the issues that occur in everyday student life.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Right. And speaking of consultations, maybe one more thing: What is maybe a signal where you would say if that really occurs frequently, it could be worth taking the first steps toward a consultation and what would be these first steps? And how can I as someone who is scared of taking these steps actually do it? Because that is typically a hurdle, just saying, “Okay, I’m going to send this email that says I have a problem and I need help.”

JOCHEN RICHTER: Right, sure. Let’s work backwards so I don’t forget anything. I think there were several questions where this point could help. It’s important that those people sending an email like this are aware that at the other end are also just people. People like me who will read it and who also might not do much else all day long than dedicate their time to matters like this. So, that means that you are on the one side and then the listener – you’re not alone. There are many others who are dealing with something like you in some way or another and who also contact us, the Psychosocial Counseling Office, and we have, I believe, 5 or 6 employees. So there is clearly a need for them all. No one has to feel ashamed that they need support. And when is this noticeable? Or rather, I think people should seek out support if they have the feeling that they can’t get out of a rut on their own. Maybe it’s a burden, or that we’re burdened, we all experience this at some point or another. There may be something that causes this, like taking a test, for instance, that’s shitty, to put eloquently. So I might feel correspondingly poorly. But if I have the feeling that everything I do becomes a burden, or if going grocery shopping is something that I can barely get myself together to do or I start doubting the meaning of everything – things like that where I really notice over a longer period of time that something has changed somehow, that’s not who I am anymore, maybe I’m even getting feedback from friends and family and they’re saying that I don’t look good or asking me if everything is okay. That would be the time to say, “Hey, maybe I really should look for support somewhere.” And I think that the services we have at TU Dresden are really good. But there are others beyond this, for example from the City of Dresden. But here at TUD, as I’ve said already, we have the Studentenwerk’s Psychosocial Counseling Office for burdens affecting the psyche. The Central Student Information and Counseling Service is really great. Now I have to think for a second, I’m afraid I’ll forget many, many organizations. There’s the Career Service for changes in daily work schedules, for doctoral candidates the Graduate Academy is an excellent place to turn. And of course there’s also the psychosocial service offered by our Psychosocial Counseling Office for anyone that has any sort of contract with TU Dresden. But I should also say, we get a good number of inquiries where we have to say, “Sorry, we’re not really directly responsible,” for instance external inquiries from people who just found our services somehow, but even then we are happy to recommend another service. Those from the City of Dresden are great – the psychosocial crisis service for all residents of Dresden is an option. People can go to them and if it’s a very acute case, I also mentioned there are telephone hotlines, which are also anonymous and confidential. That’s a good place to turn and it’s also free of charge. I would really recommend it to people who have that feeling. And it might also be worth mentioning something that is sometimes forgotten in the whole system – general practitioners. In a best-case scenario, you have a good doctor whom you trust and if you go to them, hopefully they recognize these symptoms if you say to them, “Somehow I’ve only been able to lie around on the couch for what feels like 3 months.” A good doctor should see that something isn’t right. So, it can be worth relying on the traditional medical system.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Great, I think with this broad spectrum of options, we can say that we’ve provided our listeners with a decent amount of information given the time we’ve had together. Wow, in fact, I see that we’ve spoken for nearly an hour. Right, well I’d like to express my sincere thanks for what I found to be a great discussion. We were really able to cover a lot in a short time. Maybe we can even record another episode on other topics I’ve still got written down here that we didn’t cover completely, depending on the reactions our listeners have to this episode. And of course whether you had a nice time with us. How was it for you?

JOCHEN RICHTER: Definitely. It was very interesting. I’d also like to thank you again for inviting me and of course for allowing me to give a voice to such an important topic. From my perspective. I know that I’m someone who can really get talking because it’s such an important topic to me, of course. But I think we’ve covered a lot of key points and hopefully we can reassure people that they are not alone with the problems they face.

KACHINA BARMBOLD: Yes, I hope so, too. That was the main impetus for this first episode of the podcast series. So, once again, I’d like to say thank you and see you soon.

JOCHEN RICHTER: See you soon. Bye.