Interview with Marvin Zehner

My sign name comes from my beard and I like to scratch it as if I were the mafia godfather.

I counter this with a question: how long does it take to master the English language well enough to be able to converse with others?

That's right, it takes a lot of practice and learning time. At the same time, you're never too old to learn something.

Nevertheless, in sign language you can get in touch with deaf people with just a few words and communicate with them early on because, unlike other languages, it is very visual. You simply learn the language better in the interaction in which you use it. If you don't have any contacts, you can look for a sign language course or a sign language group (if available).

Unlike auditory languages, sign language is purely visual and three-dimensional. We therefore also use a sign language space, for example to be able to describe things very precisely. Some of this is very difficult to translate into spoken language.

In addition, information can not only be told one after the other, but can also be conveyed simultaneously. This means that I can provide several pieces of information at the same time, e.g. I can use facial expressions to signal interrogative sentences or confirmations or negations. I can also use two hands to independently locate and refer to people using the sign space. Sign language therefore also has a subject-object-verb sentence structure (unlike German spoken language with its subject-verb-object sentence structure). If I express the facial expressions and the hands at the same time as described above, then you have to look at both the hands and the face while keeping the sign language space in mind.

From the outside, sign language looks so "simple" or "emotionally strong" because you can only see the individual hand movements or only the facial expressions. This is not the case; it has the same complexity as other languages.

Yes and no. Every country has its own sign language, just as all spoken languages do. So the sign languages in the different countries are different.

Nevertheless, two deaf people from different countries can interact well with each other, because they can almost "pantomime" facts clearly and unambiguously for everyone and have conversations about them, e.g. individual actions such as EATING and DRINKING can be represented very vividly and can be used internationally.

If deaf people can even master international sign language, they can even have in-depth conversations. Not every deaf person masters them automatically.

Depending on the qualifications we obtain in Germany, we also learn one or more foreign languages.

If deaf people attend a regular school (accompanied by an interpreter) among "normal-hearing" people, they also learn the same number of foreign languages as everyone else. Learning is not easy for us because, for example, the interpreter is not always available due to financial barriers or the teaching staff do not have the special educational background knowledge to be able to adequately adapt their lessons to our visual learning needs, for example. Even if an interpreter is available, it does not mean that they have a command of an appropriate foreign language for the deaf (e.g. American Sign Language) and can translate it professionally. We are often disadvantaged in several areas and do not have the same access to the foreign language that "hearing" people have.

Very rarely, American Sign Language is offered as a "foreign language" at some special schools for the hearing impaired. This "foreign sign language" would be ideal for us, as it is also visually accessible for us and direct communication with the teacher is possible.

The demand for good foreign language lessons for the deaf is currently increasing, but often the relevant skills and knowledge of the learning needs of the deaf are lacking. So the answer is not very rosy at the moment.

Counter question: Do "hearing people" only ever dream with words?

So yes, we also dream in gestures in places and we all dream inexplicable things, e.g. shadowy shadows or movements or clear panoramic images with a certain voice pitch, thought images or thought language. Even musical bass can be incorporated into dream worlds.

Hearing people often have no insight or idea of our deaf world. Sometimes they even have misconceptions and prejudices

Here is a little insight: We deaf people have existed for as long as there have been people. We have experienced every era of humanity (as an unseen marginalized group). We want other people, i.e. you "hearing" people, to finally give us our recognized and equal place in society. For thousands of years, "hearing" people have tried to treat us to speak or even to "repair" us, to ban sign language or even to eradicate it in euthanasia because deafness (like other disabilities) is something negative and bad. We are healthy, there is nothing wrong with us, and we are also people with our own language and culture, and we can do everything that hearing people can do, e.g. dance, study, and much more. Some people make us feel aurally discriminated against by hearing people and some nice people support us.

Disabilities arise because the majority do not possess this "otherness". I would like to say that disabled people are not a deficit, but only bring challenges in the interaction that society has to overcome together with the individuals. So working together is always easier for all of us. I miss the fact that people are simply different and are like that.

It is precisely through this togetherness that we gain this multi-perspective and can thus gain interesting insights into the world of sign language, e.g. sign language poetry.

As already mentioned above:

• finally barrier-free sign language at all media and events,
• finally recognition of the deaf community in society on an equal footing,
• finally implementation of the UN CRPD and finally stop just saving money!
• Finally, recognition of sign language as the second most important language in Germany!

It is also important for us that the terms sign and sign language have a positive connotation and no longer have a negative connotation, as they did in the past

It is difficult for us if the information is only audibly accessible and not available in sign language or in writing, e.g. doctors who can only be reached by telephone and do not have an email address or interpreter service programs.

We also often face hurdles with the authorities, as sign language is still not recognized as the second most important language in Germany, so often enough the costs for interpreters are not paid or covered because they do not want to pay for them or transfer the responsibility to other authorities. As a result, the costs are often not covered in time or not sufficiently. Short-term requests, conversations with colleagues or teachers or offers are particularly affected here, e.g. speeches by politicians, visits to the doctor, etc., and we feel excluded here because they are often geared towards auditive people. It was particularly difficult during the coronavirus period: information was often conveyed aurally and verbally, e.g. TV, colleagues, conferences, etc., while there was a lot of fake news on the internet and we couldn't be sure what was true.

The question is to be laughed at because, as mentioned above, there are obviously barriers. We are impaired by these barriers, although since 2008 (UN CRPD) Germany has signed up to the law that people with a disability should be included in society by being able to participate in events, life and society. To this day, there is still generally no area of life that is truly barrier-free or accessible for all deaf people. All areas of life are primarily geared towards the general majority and do not take other minorities into account. We would like to see sign language offered everywhere.

Of course, we must not pretend that inclusion will not be cheap and the government should simply implement what it has enshrined in law and undertaken since 2008.

We always recommend watching the weekly television program "Sehen statt Hören". There is an incredible amount of information about the world of the deaf.

Alternatively, you can follow the really interesting posts on the Instagram channel of the "Hand Drauf" group.

If you want to learn more about sign language in general, we recommend the Handbook of German Sign Language.

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Sign language is visual, beautiful language. Once you have passed the crucial point in learning sign language, when you have an "aha" moment and really understand the special aspects of sign language, you don't want to do without it. Because unlike other languages, it is a real asset here, even for everyday life, because it offers advantages that spoken language cannot, e.g. visual-spatial imagination or the simultaneous acquisition of information, or simply being able to converse properly and relaxed with others under water or through glass panes. I am sure you have experienced this "aha" moment in other foreign languages. I wish the same for you in DGS. So be patient when learning (don't be too hard on yourself either) and keep at it. At some point you'll get to the crunch point.